Among Us Lite – Round 3

Link to previous round can be found here

Previous Moves

Round 3 initial position:

Xxx6s5sTh9h8h8sJc/xxxxxQs6h5c4h3h2sAs5h4h3s2dAdTs/xxxxxTc2cAh6s/xxKdQdKdQdJdTd9h8d9c/4c3c2cAc7c/Ts4d/Qs8s/xxxxKcQhJhTh9s8c7s6hJc/Qc3d/xxxxTd9d8d7d6d5d4dKh

Stock = 20

Checksum: 10 + 18 + 9 + 11 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 13 + 2 + 12 + 20 = 104

Green: I like these cards! I say we take the goodies in Column 1 with “if,ij,aj,ad,ah,ae”.

Red: Not much to add – I vote “if,ai,ad,ah,ae” which is technically the same as Green since we’re not interested in the number of moves required to achieve victory.

Blue: I have something more useful to add: every card in Diamonds is now visible. I’m gonna break tradition by simultaneously voting “if,ij,aj,ad,ah,ae” and “if,ai,ad,ah,ae”. Note that this allows us to remove Diamonds even if the next card rot13(fhpxrq).

Actual Play (Decision 25, 3 Nov): if,ai,ad,ah,ae → 10 of Clubs

Green: I think it is wise to remove Diamonds and tidy our in-suit builds. True, we lose a guaranteed turnover or two but it’s more important to think long-term. I vote “ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh, ai (h6=i1)  de,ad”.  It would be nice to swap the QJ of Clubs and Hearts to build in-suit with the Kings. But we all know that Four-Suit Spider Solitaire sans zeekee is the art of the possible – it’s about what you can actually get done!

Blue: I actually prefer ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh ai (h6=i1),  bh,bh (b2=i4) ic, ie,ai. The next suit to focus on is probably Clubs. BTW, I think Green meant move three cards into the empty column when he said ji. Of course a1=h3 means swap one card in column 1 with three cards in column 8 etc.

Red: Wait a minute, wasn’t someone trying to lecture me about Diamonds not being a Kolourfull Kibitzer’s best friend? Even my grandma will spot a move that turns over a card and builds in-suit – though she probably won’t realise the importance of maintaining flexibility. Let’s keep all our options open for now and play “ai”.

Actual Play (Decision 26, 6 Nov): ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh ai (h6=i1),  bh,bh (b2=i4) ic, ie,ai → 4 of Spades (Blue + SA + Bart).

Blue: No more turnovers and we can only tidy as much as possible before dealing another round. My turn to suggest the simplest option: “ha”.

Green: I can improve slightly with “ha, (b5=h2)”. Turnovers in column 2 would be nice.

Red: I prefer “ha, eg”. My reasoning is if we get a Five next round and if we must shift it onto the Six of Spades, I would rather have junk on the non-atomic column 7. I omit (b5=h2) because it would be really nice to Swap The Ladies in columns 8 and 9.

Actual play (Decision 27, 10 Nov): ha, (b5=h2) (SA + Green outvoted Bart).

Final position of Round 3

Update

Schistocerca Americana has kindly requested we shift the Three of Hearts one notch to the left as indicated in the diagram below. If Bart does not reply within the next day, I will assume he is happy with this also.

A new final position

22 thoughts on “Among Us Lite – Round 3

  1. Decision 25.

    As for doubling cubes, I’m familiar with the concept, but must admit I’ve never actually played much backgammon (maybe none at all) where a cube was part of the game. My remark on it only reflected my idea that we’re in a pretty bad situation here.

    GM, your comment about maybe winning if you could make all the moves yourself implies that SA and I have made some where you felt another option was much better. The way we can get better is to hear of at least a few such situations and why you’d take the other path. I hope you’re keeping track for what to tell us at the end of the game.

    To the deal! This is very, very complicated! At least for me at my age.

    Here we are able to make one space from the columns with queens in them, but only one. To make aother we need to find a five to take one of those 4s.

    Here’s a relatively straightforward way to do that:
    if,ij,aj,ad,aj,ej,ej,ea.

    We have to do i instead of g for our “queen space”, because we need that 9 in column d to pull this off, so we can’t use it up with the 8 on the queen. After that we pretty much reverse pile a and put it all in j.

    We could also clear column f instead of e — just depends on whether we’ve rather use up a jack or an 8. My instinct is to give up the receiving 8 as we have lots of them, but only one space receiving jacks. So let’s stick with column e.

    So having two spaces is nice. What to do with them?

    My quick answer here is to uncover in column a while retaining 2 spaces, and see what’s next. We lose only a receiving 7, and retain almost all our flexibility along with the 2 spaces. It also ends up being my final answer.

    So in what follows I’m looking ahead here more than necessary, as it turns out.

    One idea is to take our three (3) guaranteed turnovers from column a (the 65 goes naturally on our 7 in column j, and then we can fill the spaces twice).

    But there are plenty of options for clean-up to do first. In column b we have a 10 which has a home, and a 6 to take the a-5 under that 10, and we expose a lot of small cards for rearranging. The 6 and Queen under it do not have homes, though, so we should stop there.

    We have only one receiving 7, but we can dig in column c instead of a. It uses up not just the 7 but a receiving 3 and our receiving jack, and exposes nothing but an ace (boo!) and a receiving 10. So that doesn’t sound so good.

    We can remove the diamond suit, but at quite the cost. A king in a space, revealing a receiving 4 which we have no need of right now, using up both the only receiving jack and 10, and exposing a queen. This does give us a place for the jack in column h… but not worth the cost.

    Simplifying column d might be right later. By putting our 9 and 8 onto the 10, it’s a step towards removing the diamonds when that makes sense.

    To do column h we have to put a jack in the space, but it lets us maybe straighten out some very useful stuff in the 6-9 range, though we have to do it with just one space.

    What about suit progress? Likely we can build K-8 in hearts, plus 6-3 with ace not far away, but missing 2 cards tempers its appeal. We can do 10-5 in spades but not much more. K-J in clubs, with a hard-to-access 10, then 9-7 and 5-A. No 6 of clubs on the board, but progress here would be good.

    So those are all thoughts. Exposing column a is my top choice. It’s possible that losing our receiving 7 prohibits some elegant move, but if so I don’t see it.

    Final decision: if,ij,aj,ad,aj,ej,aj,ej — the last move actually producing the 2nd space not necessary but psychologically helpful to me, at least.

    So, what about the bots/blobs/kibbitzers?

    They basically all make the same recommendation. Blue votes for both the Red and Green plans, which doesn’t matter because they’re equivalent. Blue emphasizes that diamond suit, which I still think is mostly misdirection because we will likely have more important things to do.

    My plan is the same in spirit, but I commit moving the 7 from column e, which is slightly worse in making an irreversible commitment when not necessary — even if extremely likely. That’s how an old guy keeps things a bit simpler — though we know the blobs are all aware of that potential space in column e that they can claim any time they want.

    So I’d vote for Red, noting (as they do) that they’re all equivalent.

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  2. On finding the mole — the procedure.

    I take it that our GM believes that the best move in any given situation is presented by one of the blobs. Naturally all of the blob descriptions are written by our GM, and at the time he writes them he doesn’t know what SA and I will decide. But whatever hints he has given must presumably be in relationship to what he thinks the best move is (or what a particularly bad move is). Therefore, when SA and I are trying to discover the mole, we have to take a different tack if we have made a decision that was not presented by any of the blobs. We must evaluate them relative to the list of options GM presented. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but it wasn’t obvious to me…

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    1. (Doing my best Artie Johnson from Laugh In) Interestingk, vedy interestingk.

      It certainly was not obvious to me.

      As I consider what you have surmised to be our new and improved method of choosing a path forward I can certainly understand your logic.

      But this takes away from Master Chi-Yuen the absolute total grand never-seen-before fake out of leading us astray just to see if we will follow. I have to believe our Master does have some Devil in him.

      Perhaps revisiting the positions where we both differed from the Kolorfull Kibitzers would give some weight to your vision. Or less.

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  3. Decision 23 Position 415

    Quick Look, Random Thinks:
    J, 10, 6, 9, 7, 4, 8, J, 3, K – lots of play here
    Don’t like the Heart K in Col 10. You just cannot “SwapOut” Kings.
    With 1 void we can get card in Col 3 and keep void.
    Easy to void Col 7
    Need a 5 or second K for second void.
    Dia 3 in Col 9 gives us a Dia run “on the board”

    Ok, time to work out my path to humiliation.

    First up, Can we do a Dia run?
    Gain a void “if,ij”
    Uncover the A,2 of Dia “bh”
    Uncover the Q,J of Dia “dh,dh,da”
    Do the Dia run in Col 4 whilst gaining a Turnover in Col 10 “ji,jd,fd,bd,”
    Regain our void “ga,gi”
    I don’t like. We have indeed done a run, gained a Turnover and not lost our void, but at great expense to Col 1 and also we did not gain a Turnover because the loss of the Dia 3 cost us a Turnover in Col 3. Lets look for something else and keep this in mind.

    Second, Can we gain two voids? I am looking at that Spade 5 in Col 1.
    Void Col 9 “if,ij”
    Expose the Spade 5 Col 1, “aj,ad,aj”
    Take second void Col 5 “ej,ea” or Col 6 “fa,fh”
    This has to be the way to go, I see we can gain two voids and a Turnover in Col 1 so lets see how that plays out.

    Goal:… gain two voids with a Turnover in Col 1.
    WOW! My mind races quickly with what I want to do, engage Sidetrack City Mode.
    We have two Spade 8’s. Can we take either and place between the Spade 7&9 in Col 8, moving the Club 8 in Col 8 onto the Club 9 in Col 4? This might be just beyond my vision; but maybe ????

    New Goal: Turnover in Col’s 1&3 and have a void. Mega organize.
    Void Col 9 “if,ij”
    Put Spades with Spades and Clubs with Clubs “hj,he,hg,hd,gh,ed”
    Well, Poo. No can do. We need to give up the void to the Spade 8 in Col 1 and need another 7 to house the Spade 6 in Col 3. Great idea but impossible. Lets go back to the two void with a Turnover in Col 1 routine.

    Goal Revisited: Two voids and a Turnover in Col 1
    Void Col 9 “if,ij”
    Attack Col 1 “aj,ad,aj,ed,ad”=Turnover Col 1 and ready for “ed”=Void Col 5
    Alt: Attack Col 1 “aj,ad,aj,ed,ad”=Turnover Col 1 and ready for “fd,fh”= Void Col 6.
    We could even avoid uncovering the Club A by not moving the Club 7 onto Col 4, but I dislike destroying Col 5, I’ll take the Ace.
    Simple enough.

    Question? Did we close any doors?
    We shut down the Dia run. Doesn’t seem like a big loss at this point in time.
    We lost access to the Heart 9 in Col 4. Or do we? This gets a bit complicated out there on the edge of the radar screen but I think I want to move the Club 9 and Dia 8 from Col 4 onto the Spade 10 in Col 2. With two voids we can still place that Spade 10 Col 2 on the extra Jack should we think it good in the future.

    Also, just so I can see things better, I think I will move the Club 7 onto the Spade 8 in Col 7. This is just a temporary home, we will have lots of 8’s to chose from after we gain the Turnover in Col 1.

    OK, Final Answer For Now
    Void Col 9 “if,ij”
    Expose Heart 9 in Col 4 “db,db”
    Attack Col 1 “aj,ad,aj,eg,ag”=Turnover Col 1 and ready for “ed”=Void Col 5

    Methinks this is a long winded post showing how my not too organized mind races back and forth. If I do the normal routine of Kolorfull Kibitzer’s next followed by reading Esteemed Scholar Bart this entry will measure a yard and a half long. So I think I will post this and try to get the other two parts to youse’ guys tomorrow.

    So that took me about 10 minutes of thinking and a bit more than an hour to write. The problem/advantage to writing it down is you have to try to be accurate. Perfect!! I again appeal to any Lurkers who really want to improve their play to join in this madness and take full advantage of the teachings of two very advanced minds in the “How 2 Do 4SSS SansZKey”: Master Chi-Yuen and Esteemed Scholar Bart.

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  4. Decision 25 Position 416 #2 (and adjusted)

    Well, I thought there was a lot of room for thought here, but the Kolorfull Kibitzer just hopped right on Col 1. Not much difference between them, Blue says he is keeping the Dia run in play, but with two voids, everyone is. Where I differ from Blobville on the basic “Attack: Far Left” shared by all is that I just organized a bit more so I could visualize easier, Assuming we all are going to uncover the second void in Col 5, each of us can reach the others position if need be.

    EXCEPT !!!! Uh-ooh, I think perhaps Da’ Bug has gone off his giant but shapely hind legs again???? I opted to uncover the Heart 9 in Col 4. Major difference.

    Let’s see if Esteemed Scholar Bart even mentions that line. Let’s see if Master Chi-Yuen again gives me a whack on the back of my hand with his slide rule for absolutely outlandish thinking.

    Well, my Mentor did see uncovering the Heart 9 but kept it for future reference. Thank you for that! Also he, like me, saw the gain in visualization by moving the Club 7, knowing it had plenty of available future homes. It is not necessary but I still like it for the same reason, old age.

    Nice Look Ahead, Sir.

    In the end Esteemed Scholar Bart votes with Red, which is probably the best plan as it moves the fewest cards to achieve the same goal. But this alliance allows me to maintain my Maverick status and stand my ground knowing I will be outvoted 2 to 1. So I say Uncover the Heart 9, move the Club 7.

    I vote for me.

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  5. Decision 26

    I looked at this layout and realized there was a lot to do and I wouldn’t be able to remember things with the long sequences required. So I actually did it. Pulled out my card table, a lamp to illuminate the surface well enough for a couple old eyes, two decks of cards, and recreated the situation at the start of the round.

    I also realized I probably couldn’t come anywhere near the optimal… I’d be working it out a few moves at a time, and if I’m lucky would have ended up with something vaguely like the better blobs would, but probably nowhere close. So I gave up the idea of doing my own version.

    I then followed Green’s solution up to the point where it diverged from Blue’s (which was a very long way). It was such a long sequence that a single mistake would require considerable undoing — and indeed I made a mistake. So I had to reverse and start over. But then I was able to see Green’s couple end moves “by eye” and compare with the considerably longer ending by Blue which I did by moving cards on the table.

    Red’s solution is awful. Turning over that 10 uses up a valuable space, and getting organized is much more important. We’ve held off on doing diamonds because of no gain, but now we do have a gain — a place to put column 8’s jack. All the work of blue and green uses up one space, but we still have a single turnover. Red’s second turnover is nowhere near the benefit of getting much better organized.

    I think Blue’s extra “combing” is worth it compared to green. We’re in the same situation regarding retrieving a space.

    Pulling out my tiny program: By chance, 60% of this number of cards would be more “even” than ours, so nothing dramatic. But we are missing four jacks. Better get a couple in the next deal if not right away with the turnover or our hopes fade with the “no spaces” problem.

    My vote: Blue

    Red gets a possible “sus” for such an awful plan.

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  6. Decision 26 Position 411

    Easy enough to just move the Club 10 over to Col 9 but let’s pause for a think secession. My question to me is “What, if any, door(s) does that close?”

    It takes away the “either or” option of voiding “either” Col 5 “or” Col 6.
    It inhibits an attack on Col 2.

    “The Diamond Run”: We have all seen this as on the radar, let’s look again.
    “ij,eg,eg, ji (super),da,bi,di,jd,fd,bd.

    The only reason I visited this again was that if we just move the 10 at worst we can make Col 1 Atomic, which means we have to look elsewhere for Turnovers and only have five other Columns to choose from, three of which have Kings. Maybe time to move a K ?? The question is what can we do after removing 13 Diamonds? We are approaching my limit of vision.

    Placing the Club J in Col 8 on the Dia Q in Col 4 seems like a good move.

    I keep looking at those Clubs/Spades 8/9/10 combos and wanting to combine them somehow, but can’t seem to get past the Heart 6 in Col 8

    Just move the ten, “ai”

    Kolorfull Kibitzers ??
    .
    .
    .
    “ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh, ai (h6=i1) de,ad”

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????

    WTF

    Master Chi-Yuen, you can truly see this? Even if I understood what it all means, this puts us, like, 25 moves into the future. This lowly crawler does not belong here. Perhaps you or Esteemed Scholar Bart could kindly return me to the meadow where you found me ?? May I suggest in the middle of a nice tasty clover patch.

    Please, kind sirs, a bit more time on this one. Here in Mexicoville it is Saturday. In the beginning we spoke of posting twice a week. So if I still haven’t posted Tuesday, I will then offer my resignation.

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    1. Hi SA, I fully understand your concerns about information overload. At this stage of the game it is normal to expect some difficult decisions, and you have every right to ask for more time.

      I believe this is either a critical point of the hand – or we are rapidly approaching a critical point of the hand. Of course I can’t give too much away 🙂

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  7. Decision 26 Position 411 Second Visit

    Let’s see if I am over my panic attack. But, really, 25 moves into the mist? In keeping with my advanced age I am showing the first signs of dementia and, unless there is a meal involved, am having trouble seeing 25 minutes into the clear future of everyday mundane tasks.

    Summery of last post: I looked at the Dia run, and got stumped by the Heart 6 in Col 8. So I voted the simple “ai”

    Summery #2: This post became long winded and not very important. If you wish to skip it, here is my bottom line. I was able to follow both Green and Blue, it took a lot of effort and TNTC (medical term) start-overs. I could never see this far into the haze, I could barely hop along the already defined paths. I vote Blue. I think Magnus is going to play the wrong person.

    To continue:

    Green goes the slightly more complicated route of
    “ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh, ai (h6=i1) de,ad”
    I need to try to follow step by step.

    I’m good as far as the Dia run and moving the J from Col 8 to Col 4
    Then we run into (a1=h3). After further review, I found the Dia 8 lounging around in Col 9 which makes this doable.
    Next (h2=i2), we want to trade out the Heart and Spade 9’s. I finally saw that this is ok using the Dia 10 in Col 10.
    “gh”…..”gh”?? OK. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Col 8 ends with the Dia 8 and has the Q-9 of hearts above and topped by the Club K. Wouldn’t it make more sense to swap the Dia 8 for the Heart 8 in Col 4 and then junk up Col 4 with everything living below the Spade 8 in Col 7? But, OK, lets do as the instructions say. We can attack Col 7 by putting the Spade 5 and all the little Clubs in Col 3, then move the Club 7 and Spade 6 onto the Dia 8 in Col 8, just like it says. But we have no instructions to rejoining the Spade 5 now in Col 3 with said Spade 6 at it’s new home in Col 8. So let’s not do it.
    “ai”……Ok, now the Heart 6 is in Col 9
    (h6=i1)

    Look, guys, my entire mental control board consists of 37 lights and it has only one light that is still green, and that is to indicated the power is on. 10 lights are showing steady yellow, 12 are pulsating orange and a full fourteen fast flashing red. And I have some strange Whoop-Whooping noise in my ears plus my eyes are not pointing in the same direction. Time to shut down and reset, I will return here to try this again…….maybe.

    I’m back after a nice nap. Turns out I was through the hard parts and just needed to finish up.
    (h6=i1) Swap out sixes……the Heart 6 returns to where it started, Col 8. Before we finish by taking a Turnover in Col 1, can we move the Heart 5 from Col 2 onto the Heart 6 upon its return to Col 8?
    “de,ad” take the Turnover in Col 1.

    Now I would make no claim to have followed this perfectly, that I can follow it at all is a victory for us little guys. I could never never never never author such audacity without the aid of something like my AncientExcelCheeterSheeter.

    Blue: It looks like the start is the same as Green, lets see.

    Green “ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh, ai (h6=i1) de,ad”
    Blue “ij,eg,eg,ji,bi,bf,da,di, jd,fd,hd, (a1=h3) (h2=i2) gh ai (h6=i1), bh,bh (b2=i4) ic, ie,ai”

    So we pick up after (h6=i1)
    “bh,bh” In Col 8 Join Heart 5, 6 and also join Spade 2, 3 from Col 2
    (b2=i4) swap out Heart 4, and the Club 4, in suit Club build.
    “ic” OK, move the Spade 5 and Heart 4,3 to Col 3
    “ie” fill the void, but I cannot clearly see what cards are left
    “ai” take the turnover.

    Actually, while playing I do make sequences like this, I hope everyone does. This is my very favorite part of 4SSS, using the ol’ swap-out to bring order from chaos. If I had decided on faith that the Dia run was the way to go and reached the point of removal, I would have easily seen some similar sequences like Green and Blue. The problem was that I got stuck on the Heart 6 because I had no 7, and rot13(QnzaVgQnzaVgQnzaVg) I did not look for an 8, and so went for the simple sure route. Let’s be real, at this point in time even if I had seen the availability of the 8 in Col 9 and the 10 in Col 10, I could not have pushed this much further. But I would have seen some play was to be had and it would have change my vote to “Do the Dia run and assume it will work out to better than a simple “ai””

    Master Chi-Yuen, thank you for a lesson that should be reserved for those far above the status of this worthless SixLegger.

    Red: Red went the simple route after a petty lead-in about past comments. Señor Rojo, cosas canbiar rapidio!

    I vote Blue.

    And on to see what Esteemed Scholar Bart thinks of all this. Ahhhh, in spite of being a tad bit younger than I, Esteemed Scholar Bart shows superior wisdom and dusts off his trusty manual version of my AncientExcelCheeterSheeter and only pays about a fifth of my mental anguish of trying to remember where what card is when. Of course his arthritis is acting up, but that is a story for another day. .

    He also votes Blue.

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  8. No more turnovers, the obvious is in-suit builds with Spades and Hearts. “ha,ch”

    This presents a perfect place for a reckless player, such as myself, to show some spirit and create an AlmostAtomicTurnover in Col 2 with “be”. This idea should be rejected due to the fact that Jacks is coming and we want the AtomicVoid in Col 5. But, looking at going further into the “What, are you crazy?” mode, we have three 8’s that could accept the Spade 7 from Col 5. Reject Col 7, it is already an AlmostAtomicVoid.

    If we compare the other two 8’s, using Col 9 would give us a harder path to both the Spade and Club runs. Col 4 would not make the Club run any more difficult so if I were to go this route, I would go to Col 4. “ed,bd”

    Ok, HopHopper, what‘cha gunna’ do? We all know me, we all know I cannot resist insanity. Also I think if learning is why we are here, it is best to first put down what you would do, not what you think Master Chi-Yuen or Esteemed Scholar Bart would do. The way I would play this is “ha,ch,ed,bd” Lets see if anyone else even considers this.

    Kolorfull Kibitzers?
    I am greatly saddened and also totally disappointed in my self for not learning the lesson of the last decision. My humblest apologies to my Mentors, Master Chi-Yuen and Esteemed Scholar Bart. Krazy is fine and fun, but not when there is such a good move as Greens. I vote with Green. I also vote we remove me from this panel and let someone with some skill at this game take over.

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  9. Decision 27

    I didn’t look at this too closely myself before looking at the kibbitzers.

    They all want “ha” which I like too.

    I like Green’s “b5=h2” and think the reasoning for it is sound. Regarding Red’s objections, atomic units and flexibility in the “non-king” columns is more important than small details of forming a full heart suit where a lot of other things have to happen first– in hearts there’s neither a 7 nor a 2 even on the board.

    I also like Red’s eg. I could go so far as to consider instead ec or ei. Those break up a suit, but make it even more likely that putting a 5 on that 6 will not get in the way of some other critical plan, notably for retrieving a space. On balance, I’ll reject those and stick with Red’s version.

    So what’s my vote? In order,
    “Green+Red”
    Green
    Red

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      1. I think in a situation like this you as GM should just make your own decision, one way or the other, on where that card should be, and inform us of what you did as a brief note while you go on to tell us about the new cards. I honestly don’t know exactly where that card was supposed to be based on the exact move sequence that you finally took, or if there was some ambiguity in the notation. If it’s not exactly what got specified, chalk it up to a minor tweak you made later, since obviously both positions are possible.

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    1. I am happy to shift the Heart 3, provided Bart is also happy with this decision.

      In future, it is probably more convenient to assume that if your move sequence fails to turn over a card then you wish to deal 10 more from the stock. This will help the game run more smoothly for the others.

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